ATC Training

Appreciate all of the updates in the last few weeks, it's interesting to see what's going on and I've found the wait is less frustrating when you have a better idea of the department's plan and current throughput. In that vein, any chance you have (and are willing to publish) the number of passes for each TG from 2023? I recall the number for TG ENR was reported a few weeks back but I don't remember seeing numbers for the other TGs. Cheers

I think that the disproportionately low increase in TGNC joiners in 2020 was due to the fact that many were just joining to try out a new hobby during lockdown and so weren’t interested in atc training.

9 hours ago, Adam Bass said:

Appreciate all of the updates in the last few weeks, it's interesting to see what's going on and I've found the wait is less frustrating when you have a better idea of the department's plan and current throughput. In that vein, any chance you have (and are willing to publish) the number of passes for each TG from 2023? I recall the number for TG ENR was reported a few weeks back but I don't remember seeing numbers for the other TGs. Cheers

Right you are! Exam passes in 2023:

TG NC: 108
TG Tower: 23
TG App: 10
TG ENR: 14

This is a fascinating read, Adam. Thanks so much for putting this together!

 

Whilst a lot of people will read this and think "Oh great - it'll take me about a decade", I think the untold story here is the excellence in training and mentoring.

Mentors do an outstanding job and bring experience and excellence to the sessions they run. The training materials (Syllabuses, Moodles, theory exams) are fantastic resources which trainees have access to even when waiting for sessions. 

If this level of professionalism and attention-to-detail was paid for, it would still be impressive. That it's provided by a team of passionate volunteers is mind-blowing. Thanks to everyone involved.

I appreciate you sharing these numbers, the transparency is great to see. 

 

 

As I like statistics aswell it was a great reading for me. Thank you for putting this together!

One question, when do you expect to fully implement new training structure? Any thoughts?

1 minute ago, Wojciech Strzyzakowski said:

As I like statistics aswell it was a great reading for me. Thank you for putting this together!

One question, when do you expect to fully implement new training structure? Any thoughts?

I don't plan to implement a new training structure, per se, and I don't know where this suggestion has come from. GCAP will become effective on the 1st March and we will make minor changes to our training processes in light of that, but the structure of training in the division is principally not changing.

Thank you for sharing the information and making it even more evident what a fantastic job the training team do. As a fairly recent S1 I can honestly say I was impressed at the professionalism of the training I received. I wasn't sure what to expect when I started things, but right from the Seminar it was evident that this was being delivered by people who cared about what they were doing. 

I do see a rather obvious potential solution to the throughput of OBS-S1 training (obvious to me anyway), although I am certain that it has probably been discussed previously and not implemented for good reasons. However, I would still like to make the suggestion, as crazy or repetitive as it might be, and I am more than willing to accept that it's not a great solution for whatever reasons arise. 

I am aware that currently S1 is not considered to be a "competent" rating, however, I believe that with the standard of training in this division we are turning out some very very good S1's. Certainly some of the more experienced S1's I have observed and controlled with, I believe, would potentially make fantastic mentors. I say "potentially" because like everything training other people is not always an easy thing and doesn't suit everybody. 

I think there is an opportunity to explore whether those good/experienced S1's could be mentors, maybe on 1 location that they are most experienced at. We know that the training delivered in this division is already excellent, so we should be confident that we could develop S1's into mentors? 

Like every training program there would need to be an element of quality assurance and with regular monitoring I really believe there is an opportunity to recruit additional mentors from S1's and potentially reduce the OBS-S1 wait further. 

Just my, probably naïve, thoughts on the subject. 

8 minutes ago, Phil Gates said:

Thank you for sharing the information and making it even more evident what a fantastic job the training team do. As a fairly recent S1 I can honestly say I was impressed at the professionalism of the training I received. I wasn't sure what to expect when I started things, but right from the Seminar it was evident that this was being delivered by people who cared about what they were doing. 

I do see a rather obvious potential solution to the throughput of OBS-S1 training (obvious to me anyway), although I am certain that it has probably been discussed previously and not implemented for good reasons. However, I would still like to make the suggestion, as crazy or repetitive as it might be, and I am more than willing to accept that it's not a great solution for whatever reasons arise. 

I am aware that currently S1 is not considered to be a "competent" rating, however, I believe that with the standard of training in this division we are turning out some very very good S1's. Certainly some of the more experienced S1's I have observed and controlled with, I believe, would potentially make fantastic mentors. I say "potentially" because like everything training other people is not always an easy thing and doesn't suit everybody. 

I think there is an opportunity to explore whether those good/experienced S1's could be mentors, maybe on 1 location that they are most experienced at. We know that the training delivered in this division is already excellent, so we should be confident that we could develop S1's into mentors? 

Like every training program there would need to be an element of quality assurance and with regular monitoring I really believe there is an opportunity to recruit additional mentors from S1's and potentially reduce the OBS-S1 wait further. 

Just my, probably naïve, thoughts on the subject. 

Hi Phil,

This is a regular topic of discuss and I agree with you in that there are a good number of our S1s who would make terrific mentors. However, much of the subject matter taught at S1s is the bare bones to get people on the network and controlling rather than fleshing out a detailed understanding. To that end, it would be impossible for most S1 mentors to fruitfully answer questions that S1 students might ask of them - but not all!

This is not the biggest issue, however. There exists a technical limitation, in that our OBS > S1 training takes place on Sweatbox and S1 rated controllers are not permitted to run Sweatbox scenarios. This is, ultimately, a decision above my pay grade. What we do do, however, is allow S1s to mentor other S1s for their Gatwick endorsements. This allows our S2+ rated mentors to mentor at more senior ratings whilst continuing to ensure a provision for ongoing mentoring at the S1 level - a tricky balance, but it's working so far!

Hope this helps, Phil. Thanks for reading and contributing.

Excellent insight, Adam.

4 hours ago, Adam Arkley said:

Hi Phil,

This is a regular topic of discuss and I agree with you in that there are a good number of our S1s who would make terrific mentors. However, much of the subject matter taught at S1s is the bare bones to get people on the network and controlling rather than fleshing out a detailed understanding. To that end, it would be impossible for most S1 mentors to fruitfully answer questions that S1 students might ask of them - but not all!

This is not the biggest issue, however. There exists a technical limitation, in that our OBS > S1 training takes place on Sweatbox and S1 rated controllers are not permitted to run Sweatbox scenarios. This is, ultimately, a decision above my pay grade. What we do do, however, is allow S1s to mentor other S1s for their Gatwick endorsements. This allows our S2+ rated mentors to mentor at more senior ratings whilst continuing to ensure a provision for ongoing mentoring at the S1 level - a tricky balance, but it's working so far!

Hope this helps, Phil. Thanks for reading and contributing.

I had a feeling this wouldn't have been the first time the suggestion had arisen. Thanks for the detailed explanation and I do see the logic in why things are the way they are. 

Totally agree about the S1 being a bit "bare bones". It doesn't seem like it at the time, but once you start controlling on the live network, it does quickly become apparent that there is still much to learn. 

Thanks again Adam, 

One thing that jumps out at me is the huge difference in waiting times of some of the students, how has this been calculated? 

As an example TG APP, the max someone waited was just shy of 3 years with the shortest only waiting 1 year and 2 months. Is it being calculated from joining the waiting list until being awarded a place? 

Many thanks again! 

29 minutes ago, Matthew Owen said:

As an example TG APP, the max someone waited was just shy of 3 years with the shortest only waiting 1 year and 2 months. Is it being calculated from joining the waiting list until being awarded a place? 

Essentially, yes, but we need to be more careful with wording: it's until someone was first issued a place!