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Luke Collister

atc-training S1s disconnecting with no coordination

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Luke Collister

Hi all,

I've not been near VATUK training for a long time so I've no idea what is being taught, however I've recently noticed a massive amount of S1s (literally the majority) disconnecting from ground positions with absolutely no coordination whatsoever.

On a busy London frequency (and especially Bandbox!) it is so important for situational awareness. Even if you have no aircraft, I know you're online so the next aircraft I get I will chuck to you without checking, unless you've told me that you've already disconnected. It is annoying to say the least, especially when Gatwick just went leaving me with 11 departures and no coordination whatsoever.

A quick ES PM is enough.

 

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Sebastian Wheeler

I've had the same problems recently as well, and although it isn't as bad for TWR it's really frustrating when ground disappears and you suddenly have 10 aircraft all doing different things with no prior notification! I know other divisions do it but perhaps teaching the PRAWNS handover at an early (or recapping at all) stages would benefit us all!

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Tom Earl

This thread also talked a lot about coordination when logging on/off positions. There are some good 'tips' in it for the newer controllers!

 

 

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Fergus Walsh

Hi Luke and others,
Thanks for your feedback - I completely agree with you. An emphasise has been pushed out on this for PT2 sessions 🙂 

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Lenny Colton
8 hours ago, Sebastian Wheeler said:

I've had the same problems recently as well, and although it isn't as bad for TWR it's really frustrating when ground disappears and you suddenly have 10 aircraft all doing different things with no prior notification! I know other divisions do it but perhaps teaching the PRAWNS handover at an early (or recapping at all) stages would benefit us all!

I'd like to add when S1s do "coordinate", but just say something along the lines of "bye" or "squawking cleared" and haven't kept SPads up to date but have aircraft moving, so you still have a busy frequency with no idea as to what anybody is doing.

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Harry Sugden

This old chestnut! Tell me about it... the "but there was no traffic (and I had to go)" response was usually what I got on slack/TS if I inquired afterwards. Even better, if someone does choose to PM the London controller, that they wait until they've got a response before disappearing - or just popping in and coordinating with voice!

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Louie Lister
40 minutes ago, Harry Sugden said:

This old chestnut! Tell me about it... the "but there was no traffic (and I had to go)" response was usually what I got on slack/TS if I inquired afterwards. Even better, if someone does choose to PM the London controller, that they wait until they've got a response before disappearing - or just popping in and coordinating with voice!

The only con to that is when London has a very busy frequency and you genuinely have to go. You just told to standby or your pm wont be responded to.

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Arvid Hansson
5 hours ago, Louie Lister said:

The only con to that is when London has a very busy frequency and you genuinely have to go. You just told to standby or your pm wont be responded to.

Sounds like someone's on Bandbox at an inappropriate time... (or busy dealing with the mess a KK_GND controller left behind after abruptly leaving once their favourite streamer departed) 😄

 

In all fairness, this applies to controllers of all ratings across the division. As I discussed in the thread linked above I think the general attitude and approach towards coordination is one of the main problem areas in UK controllers' competency and I feel frequently let down by other controllers on the rare occasion I control here nowadays.

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Louie Lister
 
 
 
10 minutes ago, Arvid Hansson said:

Sounds like someone's on Bandbox at an inappropriate time... (or busy dealing with the mess a KK_GND controller left behind after abruptly leaving once their favourite streamer departed) 😄

 

 

hhh.PNG

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Richard Keen

Yeah this has been going on a while and has happened to me a few times , now i always have the SMR open while doing EGKK APP so i can get an idea of how things are going just incase some one just logs off plus i can keep track of flights at the holds ....not sure if this is still being taught  but this was one of the things i used to teach new students quite early when i was mentoring and the importants of co -ords etc , one ofther thing is the S1(or any level of Controller) may have had a net issue so it may look like he/she has just gone with out saying any thing but in reality their net has gone down for some reason or another .

 

Rich

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Bill Casey
On 17/06/2019 at 20:51, Arvid Hansson said:

Sounds like someone's on Bandbox at an inappropriate time

I've never understood why people do that. There's absolutely nothing to be gained by it yet the usual suspects continue to do it with predictably chaotic results. No fun for anyone.

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Gary Oliver
14 hours ago, Bill Casey said:

I've never understood why people do that. There's absolutely nothing to be gained by it yet the usual suspects continue to do it with predictably chaotic results. No fun for anyone.

Sorry Bill.... it was 12 months ago at least !

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Nick Marinov

Bump. This continues to happen more and more and it's really not nice or respectful towards top-down controllers, neither is it productive.

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Joe Holden

I'll apologise, because I think I may be the reason @Nick Marinov has felt the need to bump this topic.

I've just returned to the network after a few years out and am trying to get back into it. Every day is a learning day and this is a lesson learnt! 🙂

Once again, sorry!

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Luke Collister

It's a shame that this has to brought up AGAIN.

Another London session, another bunch of S1s that can't do their job. Numerous ground stations logging on and not telling me and just starting to control. Others telling me about things happening at Gatwick when TC is online. Others when being asked to coordinate not even answering.

I'd prefer to have to do it all myself than have S1s that won't even coordinate controlling with me ...

Is there anything we can actually do to start combating this @Daniel Crookes or whoever is in charge nowadays? Clearly this forum post wasn't enough.

 

 

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Oliver Parker

It's happened since I started which was about 10 years ago and I imagine it happened long before that... it won't change no matter how many forum posts are made.

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Richard Keen
41 minutes ago, Luke Collister said:

It's a shame that this has to brought up AGAIN.

Another London session, another bunch of S1s that can't do their job. Numerous ground stations logging on and not telling me and just starting to control. Others telling me about things happening at Gatwick when TC is online. Others when being asked to coordinate not even answering.

I'd prefer to have to do it all myself than have S1s that won't even coordinate controlling with me ...

Is there anything we can actually do to start combating this @Daniel Crookes or whoever is in charge nowadays? Clearly this forum post wasn't enough.

 

 

I normally class my self as layed back when controlling TWR/APP and dont normally let things get to me but how you chaps cope on LON when this kind of stuff happens quite a lot i dont know , it would really start to annoy me.. its one of the reasons ive never gone for my C1 (would rather stick to the London Control sim doing TMA/ACC) ... takes a different kind of person which sadly at my age aint me lol... hats off to you LON_CTR lot

 

Rich

Edited by Richard Keen

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Jonas Hey

Agreed, I have ground controllers popping up out of no where asking why I haven't sent them departures like i'm magically meant to know they connected when i have a controller list longer than @Louie Lister CERT! It's the fact we expect the pilots to know which sector to contact when our own controllers in the division can't even work it out that gets me the most.... Find the airport - find the color, how hard can it be.... Arghhhhhh 😞 areasector1.png

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Louie Lister
4 minutes ago, Jonas Hey said:

Agreed, I have ground controllers popping up out of no where asking why I haven't sent them departures like i'm magically meant to know they connected when i have a controller list longer than @Louie Lister CERT! It's the fact we expect the pilots to know which sector to contact when our own controllers in the division can't even work it out that gets me the most.... Find the airport - find the color, how hard can it be.... Arghhhhhh 😞 areasector1.png

Funny Jonas. In addition to that map, it gives the false impression Central covers Southend top down. This is incorrect, South covers Southend top down. Hence the *SOUTH/END* 😉

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Michael Pike

Actually it doesn't identify Southend at all - it's been erased from the face of the earth.

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