Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Kilian Thornton

atc-discussion Scottish Control- Antrim Sector Callsign

Recommended Posts

Kilian Thornton

Hi,

I was wondering if we could reconsider the callsign allocated to the Scottish Sector covering the Strangford CTA and resultantly the Belfast TMA. This callsign is slightly frustrating when logged on as it does not show up on any of the VATSIM online viewers such as VATspy, Vroute, VATASTIC etc. and therefore is difficult to attract any sort of traffic when there is just the Belfast ATIS logged on. There is not much point of logging onto the position other than to surprise pilots going into AA/AC that there is actually ATC on. 

Is this something we could revisit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Harry Sugden

So STC_A_CTR does show up on VATSpy, if one updates the data - see this website. That said, I cannot remember whether it is allowed to be opened without SCO_CTR online anymore...?

There were reasons behind the change from BEL_APP to STC_A_CTR a couple of years back, not least because the Antrim sector is exactly that (a sector) - so it wasn't deemed appropriate for S3 controllers to be performing the competencies assessed under the C1 exam. The use of STC is in line with the change from EGPX/SCO to SCO/STC, which was in turn to align with the use of LON/LTC/MAN in the EGTT FIR.

However, according to THIS POST, EGAA_R_APP does have top-down responsibility for EGAC as well, so you could logon as that and maybe even host the EGAC ATIS to make it clear you cover both! I notice though that the sector file does not reflect this, and nor was I aware of this the last time I logged onto EGAA_R_APP - so there is some clarification required here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kilian Thornton

I'm aware of the VATspy update but I'm not convinced of the numbers of those who have updated.

I understand and supported the change when it was implemented a number of years back and agree with your points.

Unfortunately I do ultimately log onto EGAA_R_APP  instead of the STC_A_CTR and do as mentioned with the ATIS- of which I have no issue with. However, I think it's a shame that we are therefore wasting the Antrim/ Strangford Scottish position if that is the solution to just log onto EGAA_R_APP. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Harry Sugden

Hmm, I see what you're saying, but is there any advantage in logging on STC_A_CTR over EGAA_R_APP, when SCO_CTR is not online? I would assume that the primary function one wishes to serve when logged on as STC_A_CTR is to handle EGAA/AC departures/arrivals, which in the absence (or even presence) of SCO_CTR, EGAA_R_APP is able to achieve?

It might, however, be an idea to re-establish BEL_APP such that EGAA_R_APP and EGAC_R_APP may be bandboxed as a single position. Then were EGAA_R_APP or EGAC_R_APP to log-on in addition to BEL_APP, the BEL_APP controller would have to switch callsign to act as the remaining approach function?

Edited by Harry Sugden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kilian Thornton

The main advantage of the position is an increase of the control area for those dep/arr extending out to the IOM upto FL245.

If we are talking about BEL_APP as the same position as STC_A_CTR then it is the low level Scottish CTA covering that extends past just past IOM upto FL245. Under that we have EGAA_R_APP (Belfast Approach) which covers the Belfast TMA that extends 5nm parallel to the east of Belfast City upto FL105. Then under that we have EGAA_APP (Aldergrove Director) and also EGAC_APP (Belfast Approach). So with the STC_A_CTR covering all of them positions, from my understanding I don't think we would have an issue regarding the question you have raised.

Could I suggest SCO_A_CTR (Antrim) maybe?

Edited by Kilian Thornton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Harry Sugden

So what I was proposing was to have EGAA_R_APP and EGAC_R_APP which can be opened separately, covering only their respective airfields. Then BEL_APP could be a bandbox of those two positions, clearly distinguishing it from EGAA_R_APP and covering both EGAA and EGAC. (So a separate issue to the Antrim callsign one this thread is about!)

44 minutes ago, Kilian Thornton said:

Could I suggest SCO_A_CTR (Antrim) maybe?

I suppose this depends on whether we view 'STC' as referring to "low-level" sectors - of which we have Antrim and ScTMA (STC_CTR) - OR whether we say that 'STC' should be the identifier for the ScTMA position only... and then as you say, Antrim uses SCO_A_CTR.

  • Does 'SCO' light up the EGPX FIR for those who have not installed a VAT-Spy update?
  • If it does, then would the potential confusion of the whole EGPX FIR being lit up despite it not being covered, outweigh the inconsistency by not using 'STC' for lower level sectors?
  • Will a change from STC->SCO necessarily bring more traffic to the Antrim sector, than say hosting an ATIS for EGAA does, even if the sector doesn't appear lit up?

I have no answer to this question, as I suppose I'm indifferent - I tend to just log onto SCO_CTR, but I do acknowledge the privilege(?) of being able to do so (I don't know what the situation is regarding VATeir/Antrim atm, and of course you might not want to log onto the whole of Scottish regardless which is understandable too!). So if the change would make people more inclined to log on to Antrim... and draw more traffic... then I guess it would seem sensible?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • Arvid Hansson
      By Arvid Hansson
      To all controllers rostered on LTC/AC positions for the event tomorrow, here is a short briefing post with some key points all controllers should take into account:
      Any changes in availability must be reported as soon as possible to myself or Harry. Weaving together the roster with our current headcount has been somewhat of a challenge and we don't want any last minute surprises! Contrary to the post in the roster thread, there will not be an organised brief tomorrow afternoon. Any updates/further information will be communicated via this thread. Any questions can also be put here or directed to me or Harry directly. Stansted and Gatwick have been designated as the North/South diversion airports. If pilots indicate they're running out of fuel or they're holding past their bedtime, direct them to the nearest of these two airports straight away. No faffing about. Avoid holding aircraft at BRASO unless the BIG stack is or becoming full. It is more efficient to stack swap these aircraft to BIG. The same concept could potentially apply at WCO vs. OCK etc. but the LAM stream will be busier than the rest of the streams by far. Be proactive. Do not accept more planes if your sector is becoming too saturated. Do not blindly accept handoffs without knowing whether the aircraft will fit in your sector. Speak to your feeding sector and have them hold planes if necessary to avoid your own sector becoming a mess. This applies especially to the Clacton and TC East sectors, but all sectors with dense streams must make sure to stream aircraft at reasonable speeds. Don't have your stream at 280kts until reaching the stack. Reconsider all speed restrictions above 250kts when entering TCN/TCS sectors. It is imperative that pilots are able to reach holding speed in a timely manner for the holding to be efficient and consistent. Make sure pilots understand holding speed, do not be afraid to reiterate the speed in knots if they seem to not be fully understanding what they should do. Ask for lower speeds from your feeder if you are being offered planes that are too fast. It is OK and perfectly acceptable, but more importantly safe for departures to stay at 6,000ft for a while. Do not rush their climbs if it will cause unnecessary conflicts. Reiterate the 6,000ft restriction to pilots who sound like they need a refresher, and kindly advise pilots urging you for higher that it is not necessary. Speak to your neighbours! If we have EHAA/LFxx coverage, make sure they are away of how busy we are. Have them put planes on low mach numbers early, introduce MDIs at AMS, CDG, and other nearby airports if absolutely necessary and make sure they stay on top of their streaming game. If they don't, communicate and tell them what you need! Requesting 10-20 miles in trail if required is not unreasonable, and they should be able to accommodate. If we don't end up lucky enough to have neighbouring coverage, don't be afraid to take planes early if you have the capacity. Getting speed control sorted early or even holding planes outside the FIR if required will be a massive help. Use your breaks wisely. Drink water (or a beverage of your choice( @Lewis Hardcastle)) to stay alert and hydrated. Now, some "technical" things:
      Make sure you have the latest sector file (2019/01). I won't link to it here. If you don't know where to find it, kindly withdraw your name from the roster 😉 If you can, please update your Euroscope NavData to cycle 1901. This will ensure you have all new fixes, airways etc. which have been added recently. If you are not sure how to do this, speak to myself, Harry or someone who you think might know for assistance. Take a good look at the roster, make sure you understand and can picture the different splits - especially the LTC splits. Some sectors will consolidate onto TC bandbox, and some onto their parent sector which might look confusing if you don't see the big picture (sometimes they'll just close, though 🙂 ). Add this to your alias file. It includes all holding instructions we will realistically need and will save valuable RT time when pilots don't have the charts up. Do NOT spend unnecessary time trying to verbally give holding instructions more than once. If you need to repeat it, send the alias and be over with it. If you are interested, here are the predicted arrival frequencies from each stack over 30 minute intervals throughout the event (times shown are wheels down times):

      That was all for now. Don't forget that we are here to have fun, let's have a blast tomorrow! 😄
      @Phillip Speer @Callum Axon @Chris Pawley @Fraser Cooper @Matthew Burton @Sebastian Rekdal  @Lewis Hardcastle @Luke Collister @Dale Brooksby @Luke Brown
    • Harry Sugden
      By Harry Sugden
      Hi all,
      If there are any more C1s around to control for Real Ops, your help would be very much appreciated! Coverage on North and West (if we manage to get enough people) will help too - either book in the CTS or pop your name down on the post and we could roster some cover there.
      The more we can split, the more fun it'll hopefully be... at the moment it's just looking like unmanageable stress!
      Cheers
    • Callum McLoughlin
      By Callum McLoughlin
      I have booked LL INTN tomorrow evening between 5-10pm. If anybody would like to join in, perhaps even take FIN and S_APP, you'd be very welcome to. Perhaps it could be a little practice for the overload? I'm happy to swap around too if someone wants a go on N_APP.
      The offer is there, anyway 🙂 
    • Mark Cable
      By Mark Cable
      Hi,
       
      have been away for a while and I am struggling to find the bookings page. I go to Controllers/Bookings and this is what i get, with no option to open the bookings page or see my past ATC history, exams, previous mentoring sessions reports etc. See attached screenshot,
      can anyone help?
       
      Cheers Mark

    • Harry Sugden
      By Harry Sugden
      For those who are interested, it is the beginning of the end for the airspace as we know it...
      Free Route Airspace (FRA) is coming by the end of 2020! http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Statement of Need - 153294 (Redacted).pdf
      Following the modernisation of London City's airspace in 2016 with LAMP1, LAMP2 is on its way too - http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ACP201770Statement of Need v2 (Redacted).pdf
      And there was a News article on the NATS website the other day: https://www.nats.aero/news/government-gives-green-light-modernised-airspace/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=linkedin_company&utm_medium=NATS
      It's all change!
×