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Brian Salmeron

What is the correct procedure?

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Brian Salmeron

Here's my example. I file an IFR plan from Barton (EGCB) to Stapleford (EGSG) with the route from the SRD document at FL150  DCT LISTO L612 HON L10 BPK DCT , as Barton is VFR only I depart Barton VFR and remain OCAS to the north. Here's the part I don't fully understand. I call Manchester radar and what is the correct phraseology to pickup the IFR clearance and join the flightplanned route?

 

Regards

Brian

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Callum McLoughlin

I'd request clearance to join CAS from MAN_CTR/LON_N_CTR, they will then give you a vector and a level to join controlled airspace. Often this sort of thing is arranged by the controller/FISO on the ground passing all of your details across, so when you depart you can be sent straight over to the TMA sector and then into CAS.

If the ATCO hasn't heard from you before, I'd do the following (perhaps not text book... but it works for me) - baring in mind on VATSIM the ATCO does have access your flight plan....

"Scottish Control, G-ABCD"

"GCD, Scottish, pass your message"

"GCD is a C172 from Barton to Stapleford, IFR, 5 miles West of Barton at 1000ft, request clearance to join CAS at LISTO".

"GABCD, squawk 1234, remain outside of CAS".

[...]

"GABCD, identified 6 miles North West of the MCT VOR, basic service, fly heading 230 degrees and climb FL80, cleared to join Controlled Airspace, IFR".

 

But I am rusty.

Edited by Callum McLoughlin

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Harry Sugden

Pretty good going I'd say Callum! 😄 I wouldn't have misunderstood a call like that 👌 Oh and great question Brian - got a few of us thinking! Hope you don't mind me adding in a few of my comments to maybe benefit Brian, yourself, and anyone else reading this...?

Scenario 1

  • If Barton radio is online, it might be possible for you to request clearance from them, and for them to request the clearance from London/Scottish Control before departure - you might then get a clearance in the style of "London clears G-ABCD to Stapleford via..." (the "London/Scottish clears" part is important, as an AFISO/"Radio" position can't clear you for a flight into CAS)
  • There would then probably be coordination between Barton / Manchester Radar / London/Scottish for the handling of your flight
  • It'd be made pretty clear from then on what you'd need to do

Scenario 2

  • Barton radio is not online, or doesn't get a clearance from London/Scottish for you, then you'd depart from Barton and remain OCAS as alluded to
  • You'd then probably request a service and the clearance from Manchester Radar after departure, who would have to go and fetch a clearance from London/Scottish if they wanted to pass that on
  • Either way, your intentions would probably be clear with something like... "GABCD is a C172, Barton to Stapleford, 5 miles west of Barton at altitude 1200ft, request IFR clearance"
  • Then again, it'd be made pretty clear what you'd have to do from there...

From the controller's perspective...

  • I'd most likely reply "GABCD, basic service, Manchester QNH 1012, squawk 1234" then issue a traffic service once identified - controllers: there's no need to give the location of an identified a/c unless using the turn method for ID 🙂 
  • I'd then (as Manchester Radar) probably get a clearance from, and coordinate with London/Scottish, then clearing you into CAS with something along the lines of: "GABCD, cleared to enter controlled airspace (direct LISTO/heading 190 degrees), climbing to altitude 5000ft"
  • Then you'd get an upgrade to a radar control service in CAS, and hopefully by then an IFR clearance passed on too - you'd then be off to London/Scottish Control!

This is all without reference to CAP493 so if anyone spots anything a little off, do point it out.

I fear I may have complicated things when looking at this from a pilot's perspective, but as I said, something similar to what Callum's outlined would get you on your way just fine!

Edited by Harry Sugden

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Harry Sugden

@Lewis Hardcastle and I have been doing some more digging...

CAP 413 Chapter 7 Page 2, 7.3 gives a good example! 

"Wrayton Control, G-RDVC, request clearance to enter controlled airspace northeast of Marlow at FL240 at time 42"
"G-RDVC, cleared at time 42 from 8 miles northeast of Marlow to Colinton via A1, maintain FL240, squawk 5507"
"Cleared at time 42 from 8 miles northeast of Marlow to Colinton, via A1, maintain FL240, squawk 5507, G-RDVC"
"G-RDVC, correct"

(note that line 2 - from the controller - includes both a clearance into CAS and clearance from 'Marlow' to 'Colinton' via the A1 airway)

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