Jump to content
Andy Ford

atc training Have Your Say: ATC Feedback

Poll  

56 members have voted

  1. 1. Given the current and proposed systems of handling Controller Feedback, which would you prefer?

    • Current System
      2
    • Proposed System
      54


Recommended Posts

Andy Ford

Recently we've been having a very long discussion regarding how we handle controller feedback and how our processes can be improved, as not everyone feels that we do feedback in the best way - especially when that feedback isn't positive. From these discussions we've come up with a possible idea for a new system for handling ATC feedback and would like the input of the membership before we take anything further.

Current System

The current system for ATC Feedback is a manual process involving delegated members of the ATC Training Department. All feedback submitted is anonymous (members of staff have to explicitly click a button in order to view who submitted the feedback, which is logged). When feedback comes in, a member of staff reviews the feedback. If the feedback is positive, we pass it on to the member - without revealing the identity of the submitter (so some redaction may take place). If the feedback is negative, we generally do not pass it on to the member every time (except in cases where trends are developing), but use it to inform areas for improvement within the department.

Some members that we have spoken to do not like this system, as they want to know everything that people have to say about them and on the flip side want to make sure that their feedback is going to the member in question, not just sitting in a database waiting to be processed.

Proposed System

The proposed system would change how we handle feedback, to the following:

  • Members submitting feedback may indicate whether or not they want feedback to be sent to the controller in question or just the ATC Training staff. In choosing to send feedback to the member, they acknowledge that everything they say will be made visible and thus should take care not to say anything that would identify them if they wish to remain anonymous.
  • By default, members will automatically receive all feedback (positive or negative) when it is submitted unless they choose to opt out. This will be available, as it is now, through the front-end of Core.
  • All feedback is visible to delegated members of ATC Training Staff.

Through this proposed to system, we hope to achieve the following things:

  • Reduced admin time for ATC Training staff - who will then only have to process feedback addressed directly to us.
  • Members who want to know what is being said about them can find out straight away, so that they can see how they are doing.
  • Members submitting feedback can be sure that their feedback is reaching the intended individual, not gathering dust in a database row somewhere.

For this purpose, we have created a poll that asks the following question: "Given the current and proposed systems of handling Controller Feedback, which would you prefer?". We would encourage all members to vote in this poll so that we can gauge how popular a change from our current system is with the membership. Moreover, if anybody has any comments or suggestions, please reply to this post - the proposed system is up for discussion and change.

Thanks!

Edited by Andy Ford

Share this post


Link to post
Fergus Walsh

I like the new idea. It definitely takes less time for staff and makes feedback worthwhile. 

Share this post


Link to post
Matthew Wilson

I believe all feedback whether negative or positive should be fed back to the controller concerned. You can easily redact negative feedback so the controller can't pinpoint when it happened and thus identify the pilot. I do think however that negative feedback is constructive. Especially if the same issue is being highlighted more than once. Because it shows there clearly is a problem, which the controller might not think is happening and therefore can't try and fix the issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Harry Sugden

I'd quite like to know about any negative feedback, even if it's not a recurring pattern - if a situation happens very rarely, but I didn't handle it well / correctly on that one occasion it did, I'd still like to know even though it might not be a trend. 🙂 I like the proposed thing! The message 'The training department wanted to make you aware of some positive feedback that was left for you' didn't really tell me much the other day haha...

Share this post


Link to post
Oliver Rhodes
13 hours ago, Scott Biglin said:

Can someone summarise?

Currently: pilots submit feedback, and ATC staff see that feedback. Where it's positive, the controller is told they've had positive feedback. Where it's negative, it is noted and trends that emerge are used to inform future training.

Under the proposed system: pilots submit feedback and can select whether or not to have it automatically forwarded to the member (it will always be sent to ATC staff). Controllers can 'opt-out' of receiving feedback left for them if they so wish.

The reasoning behind this proposal is that:

  • It reduces admin time for staff (no longer having to process every bit of feedback, just where a submitter has requested it not to go to the controller);
  • Controllers get all their feedback, so can see everything that's being said about them 
  • Controllers receive feedback straight away (rather than being told about it three days and four glasses of wine later)
  • Submitters know that their feedback goes directly to the member to use to improve their controlling, rather than just 'gathering dust in a database'
Edited by Oliver Rhodes

Share this post


Link to post
Graham Carr

Is there not a risk that feedback direct to the controller may be disheartening to them rather than received in a constructive manner - or even written in a non constructive way in the first place?

I note from Andy's post that feedback will also be received by ATC Training Staff - will it be monitored for trends, and maybe suggest an ad-hoc mentoring session to jointly overcome the issue(s) raised?

I am not against the proposed idea at all, I am just aware that not everyone takes criticism/negative feedback well. On the other hand, for a controller to receive positive feedback would be amazing to see.

Share this post


Link to post
Lenny Colton
10 hours ago, Graham Carr said:

Is there not a risk that feedback direct to the controller may be disheartening to them rather than received in a constructive manner - or even written in a non constructive way in the first place?

I note from Andy's post that feedback will also be received by ATC Training Staff - will it be monitored for trends, and maybe suggest an ad-hoc mentoring session to jointly overcome the issue(s) raised?

I am not against the proposed idea at all, I am just aware that not everyone takes criticism/negative feedback well. On the other hand, for a controller to receive positive feedback would be amazing to see.

If feedback was written in a rude or abusive way, it could be treated as any other abusive message, such as one recieved over TeamSpeak, and dealt with accordingly.

Share this post


Link to post
Harry Sugden
6 hours ago, Lenny Colton said:

If feedback was written in a rude or abusive way, it could be treated as any other abusive message, such as one recieved over TeamSpeak, and dealt with accordingly.

So perhaps a 'Report This' button? But then again, hopefully people can just be civil...

Share this post


Link to post
Lenny Colton
7 hours ago, Harry Sugden said:

hopefully people can just be civil...

On the internet?

Share this post


Link to post
Graham Carr

Sounds good chaps.

I think Lenny has a point - not everyone can be civil on the internet unfortunately 😞 

Edited by Graham Carr

Share this post


Link to post
Sebastian Wheeler

What I'd like to know, as an aside, is what the current structure with feedback is regarding bespoke mentoring?

If staff do notice a trend, does this happen? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Andy Ford

We feedback to mentors in the same way we do controllers. The feedback we receive for mentors is overwhelmingly positive.

Share this post


Link to post
Andy Ford

Thanks for your feedback folks, the poll is now closed.

We've listened to your votes and comments and will be looking to implement the changes to the feedback system as soon as we can. 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Similar Content

    • Callum McLoughlin
      By Callum McLoughlin
      Gents
      In respect of the below:
      If an S2 is good enough to control Approach during CTP, they should be upgraded to S3! That is not a disparaging comment towards any of the SAV chaps, the way - but a suggestion that these guys genuinely need an upgrade!! This equally applies to all solo validation holders controlling in their "acting S2/S3/C1" capacity.
      Would this be actioned after CTP, as what better exam could there be?
      I hope that VATUK finds a pragmatic way forward with this as it would be a fantastic coup.
    • Harry Sugden
      By Harry Sugden
      Would it be possible to advise controllers during their training, that if a pilot sounds like they might need the initial climb issued to them, that it be given in the clearance? Of course this might lead to some pilots who do check the chart being told it, and some who don't check the charts still busting it... but it's getting a bit tiring on London these days with the number of busts. It's VATSIM... chart reading isn't a particularly popular pass time, but of course this idea would require subjective interpretation of what a non-chart reader sounds like.
      Open to other suggestions as to how we can address this problem... perhaps some way we can point pilots to charts better than we do now?
    • Andy Ford
      By Andy Ford
      It's now been four months since we released the new VATSIM UK approach radar training syllabus. Since release, we've seen an increase in the number of exams coming through the system, still with a strong pass rate.
      Now that we've all had time to work with the new syllabus, it's time to look towards the next iteration and improvement. Therefore, we'd like to invite mentors and students to comment on how they're finding the syllabus and any feedback that they may have.
      With any additions or improvements, we are hoping to retain the current paradigm of "if it's theory, then it's self-taught". If there's something that you've noticed students lacking with regards to theory because we haven't told them what they need and where to find it, please say and this can be added. This iteration will be adding the "Attitude To Self-learning" section that we have already added to the updated Tower syllabus.
      On the practical side, we're interested to know if there's anything that you would want to see added to the syllabus or integrated into an existing criterion. Or perhaps there's something that could be made clearer to aid understanding?
      Once we've collected all the feedback, we'll update the syllabus and release the improved version.
    • Andy Ford
      By Andy Ford
      Hi Folks,
      To conclude the epic quest that has been restructuring our training syllabus, we would like to present the first draft of the new C1 syllabus for comments.
      As with S2 and S3, the purposes here are as follows:
      To clearly define what skills a student must demonstrate in order to progress towards the C1 rating and how their performance corresponds to different gradings A guide to mentors to reduce mentor interpretation in grading students Designating a number of competencies as "self-taught", removing the theory aspect (and namely repeating the same thing multiple times over) from sessions. The draft syllabus may be found here:
      https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sUM7WnK5n4YRO4AdYSZoGTsRfGKcJBgAh6jHmjqm7HQ/edit?usp=sharing
      Any feedback and comments are most welcome. Once people have had a chance to comment, we'll begin the process of finalising this and putting it live.
      Thanks!
    • Andy Ford
      By Andy Ford
      Hi Folks,
      Following the redesign of the S2 syllabus, we are now in a position to do this for S3 with the same aims as before.
      As such, I am pleased to present the first draft of the S3 syllabus for review. It would be great if members could have a read though and let us know any feedback that they have on this forum thread. Once everyone's had an opportunity to read and comment, we'll make any amendments and look towards implementation including updating the progress sheets.
      Links:
      Syllabus Flow Diagram Thanks!
      Andy
×
×
  • Create New...