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Alex Ridge

discussion Gatwick Crib

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Alex Ridge

Hi guys,

 

With the new SIDs/STAR for 1806, I was kindly wondering when we can expect the updated Crib sheets.

 

Thank you,

 

Alex

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George Peppard

As it's a fairly major aerodrome, I assume it's something being worked on.

Until it's finished, here's the routings:
273baa.png

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Lenny Colton

This is very helpful @George Peppard! As the non-RNAV SAM is still in the sector file, I was unaware that I should be assigning NOVMA and IMVUR if SAM is filed.

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Richard Keen

Although don't forget not everyone will have the new SIDs if they haven't updated their nav data so best to ask if they prefer one or the other.

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George Peppard
5 hours ago, Lenny Colton said:

the non-RNAV SAM is still in the sector file

Still exists for one more cycle in RW for whatever reason. I believe it's being removed next AIRAC.

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Nathan Innes

Touching up on the topic of the new Gatwick SIDs coming into effect. A lot of the current ground controllers are still unaware of what holding points they should be using whilst on these SID's.

Since they are still westbound departures the aircraft should be sent to holding points:

26L: A2

08R: J7

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Adam Farquharson

Is it possible to get an E-mails sent out to all of the Gatwick endorsed ground controllers letting them know the new routings and new holding points because a lot of the controllers won't be active on this part of the forum and might not see that there is a change.

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Louie Lister
3 hours ago, Adam Farquharson said:

Is it possible to get an E-mails sent out to all of the Gatwick endorsed ground controllers letting them know the new routings and new holding points because a lot of the controllers won't be active on this part of the forum and might not see that there is a change.

I don't think they can now due to GDPR, however, you could just learn them yourself and look at the photo @George Peppard attached above.

Northern and Easterly departures go to A3/J4 

Southerly and Westerly departures go to A2/J7

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Adam Farquharson

yeah it is fine for me but I know when I first started controlling I didn't look at the forums meaning that I wouldn't have known there was a change and I wouldn't have known that there was a change. It hasn't really changed because anything going to SAM is still A2/J7 as before but it would more be the routings that I wouldn't know meaning you would end up with broken flight plans with missing airway's. I guess London South/Gatwick director will just have to put up with some dodgy flight plans.

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Nathan Innes
12 hours ago, Adam Farquharson said:

Is it possible to get an E-mails sent out to all of the Gatwick endorsed ground controllers letting them know the new routings and new holding points because a lot of the controllers won't be active on this part of the forum and might not see that there is a change.

It's the controllers responsibility at the end of the day to ensure that what they have is up to date with the new AIRAC cycles.

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Alex Ridge

Hello,

Sorry to bump this but I feel like an update is needed.

 

Alex

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Louie Lister
56 minutes ago, Alex Ridge said:

Hello,

Sorry to bump this but I feel like an update is needed.

 

Alex

I believe it is currently in progress.
Patience is a virtue.. 

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George Peppard

If it's not already a WIP as @Louie Lister has said...

These things take time. You could perhaps offer to volunteer to help update the documentation?

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Alex Ridge
11 hours ago, George Peppard said:

If it's not already a WIP as @Louie Lister has said...

These things take time. You could perhaps offer to volunteer to help update the documentation?

With all due respect, the responsibility shouldn't be passed over to membership flippantly like that. 

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Louie Lister
7 minutes ago, Alex Ridge said:

With all due respect, the responsibility shouldn't be passed over to membership flippantly like that. 

These are only comments that staff would have said anyway and are not 'responsibilities' for the membership. George and I are just simply stating facts. With all due respect to you Alex, the current crib sheet is fairly up-to-date anyway and there is not a lot to change except the new 2 departures which replace SAM. I doubt this is the highest priority for ATC and OPS. 

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Lewis Corcoran
5 minutes ago, Louie Lister said:

These are only comments that staff would have said anyway and are not 'responsibilities' for the membership. George and I are just simply stating facts. With all due respect to you Alex, the current crib sheet is fairly up-to-date anyway and there is not a lot to change except the new 2 departures which replace SAM. I doubt this is the highest priority for ATC and OPS. 

Yeah, that's the only change I believe so I mean you could edit it yourself. Or make a custom one for personal use before they make a public one

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George Peppard
26 minutes ago, Alex Ridge said:

the responsibility shouldn't be passed over to membership flippantly like that

With all due respect I heavily disagree. ATC training: volunteers. Pilot training: volunteers. Operations: volunteers.

VATSIM runs off volunteers. If nobody volunteered to do anything then nothing would be done.

Nobody is getting paid to do any of this. We don’t have an SLA with the operations department, we don’t have any sort of contract with them nor can we force them to update a crib sheet with a few low priority changes.

The crib sheet is there to help the controller - not as a final reference to everything. Learn the local procedures and you’ll be fine.

Edited by George Peppard

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Louie Lister
3 minutes ago, George Peppard said:

With all due respect I heavily disagree. ATC training: volunteers. Pilot training: volunteers. Operations: volunteers.

VATSIM rubs off volunteers. If nobody volunteered to do anything then nothing would be done.

Nobody is getting paid to do any of this. We don’t have an SLA with the operations department, we don’t have any sort of contract with them nor can we force them to update a crib sheet with a few low priority changes.

The crib sheet is there to help the controller - not as a final reference to everything. Learn the local procedures and you’ll be fine.

I have to agree with you George. To be honest Alex, it's the membership who contributed to the sector file you control on, the VMATs you read and also the Crib Sheets you read. It's not always just staff, for example I'm currently in the progress of building a Crib Sheet for Southend. I wouldn't rely on staff members to reply when it's also non-staff contributing too.

Edited by Louie Lister

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Richard Keen

The end of the day it will be ready when its ready , the people who make these crib sheets more then likely have other RW commitments so get round to finishing  them when they can....you could always spend time learning the airport you control at by memory so no need to use the Crib sheets ,you know some of the SIDs have changed so learn the new SIDs and which ones they replaced and take it into account when sending flights to the holds   ... more fun that way.

Rich

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