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Craig Tomkins

atc-discussion HMR and Rigs

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Craig Tomkins

Hi all,

I have a question regarding control over oil rigs and HMR. Is there any vatsim cover for key areas out side the norm. For example; 

1. LONDON CTA; normally (correct me if wrong) London special controls Heli on routeS. But I never see them online. 

2. Is north sea OSA radar  simulated in vatsim. If not what is the blocker?

3. Is anglia OSA radar  simulated?

4. Is there anyway that vatsim controllers could control rig decks? 

Thank you in advance. 

Anglia OSA.pdf

IS HMR.pdf

Edited by Craig Tomkins

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Andy Ford

The London CTR helicopter routes are controlled by Thames Radar on VATSIM. In their absence, the job passes to Heathrow Director (Heathrow Special does exist and technically comes first but as you’ve pointed out is never opened).

I don’t know if the VATSIM positions exist for the other ones, or whether or London covers them top down. They rarely see traffic on VATSIM though. One for @Chris Pawley.

Edited by Andy Ford

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Craig Tomkins

So if I wanted to control the HMR from an ATC perspective. Would I complete normal ATC training? 

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Connor Faulder
On 12/02/2018 at 15:39, Craig Tomkins said:

1. LONDON CTA; normally (correct me if wrong) London special controls Heli on routeS. But I never see them online. 

It's now "Heathrow Radar", but yeah covered by Thames as Andy says on VATSIM.

 

On 12/02/2018 at 15:39, Craig Tomkins said:

2. Is north sea OSA radar  simulated in vatsim. If not what is the blocker?

On 12/02/2018 at 15:39, Craig Tomkins said:

3. Is anglia OSA radar  simulated?

The offshore positions aren't defined anywhere in the sector file, and I doubt they'd get much use if they were (other non-airport positions aren't defined either such as Western Radar. It's not something VATSIM UK seems to do). Given that the helicopter routes are ultimately outside of CAS anyway, the best bet would be for somebody to be on Humberside or Norwich radar to provide FIS.

 

You've also added the map for Morecambe Bay. Is that not now covered by Warton Radar anyway, given Blackpool's lack of radar?

 

On 12/02/2018 at 15:39, Craig Tomkins said:

4. Is there anyway that vatsim controllers could control rig decks

No.

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Craig Tomkins
13 minutes ago, Connor Faulder said:

It's now "Heathrow Radar", but yeah covered by Thames as Andy says on VATSIM.

 

The offshore positions aren't defined anywhere in the sector file, and I doubt they'd get much use if they were (other non-airport positions aren't defined either such as Western Radar. It's not something VATSIM UK seems to do). Given that the helicopter routes are ultimately outside of CAS anyway, the best bet would be for somebody to be on Humberside or Norwich radar to provide FIS.

 

You've also added the map for Morecambe Bay. Is that not now covered by Warton Radar anyway, given Blackpool's lack of radar?

 

No.

So . . . I am really keen to help increasè Heli traffic on the network in the UK. With H7 coming some time in the near future (I am guessing) and p3d commitment to increase the flight dynamics. I would suspect there would could increased traffic. I was under the impression that all Heli traffic to offshore rigs is now controlled under radar control based on the CAA recommendations. Hence, where the main flights take place there are documented HMR and gates. 

So if the rigs where documented and the HMR where documented in the sector file, specific radar positions created and control training issued then this would allow the portions to be staffed?

Thank for your help, I am just trying to understand the controllers side of fence. 

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Connor Faulder
10 minutes ago, Craig Tomkins said:

With H7 coming some time in the near future (I am guessing)

You mean P7? Don't hold your breath. I don't expect to ever see it, nevermind in VATSIM UK.

 

11 minutes ago, Craig Tomkins said:

I was under the impression that all Heli traffic to offshore rigs is now controlled under radar control based

That'd be odd. @Matthew Dean was there much on offshore ops at that presentation?

 

12 minutes ago, Craig Tomkins said:

this would allow the portions to be staffed?

@Chris Pawley is the best person to comment on this. I think one of the big challenges is finding someone who fully understands offshore ATC by the sound of it!

 

It's not offshore, but I certainly encourage helicopters if I'm controlling any position including Thames or Heathrow. From a pilot's perspective, X-Plane is definitely the way to go ;)

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Craig Tomkins
21 minutes ago, Connor Faulder said:

You mean P7? Don't hold your breath. I don't expect to ever see it, nevermind in VATSIM UK.

 

That'd be odd. @Matthew Dean was there much on offshore ops at that presentation?

 

@Chris Pawley is the best person to comment on this. I think one of the big challenges is finding someone who fully understands offshore ATC by the sound of it!

 

It's not offshore, but I certainly encourage helicopters if I'm controlling any position including Thames or Heathrow. From a pilot's perspective, X-Plane is definitely the way to go ;)

P7 (h7) . . . .let's see shall we 😉😉😉

I have some contacts in offshore Heli ops in real life I might be able to pull on (pilots) and I will ask a Freind if they have any contacts regarding real life ATC procedures. 

I would be keen to offer radar services and the required changes (all are happy). What would I need to do in terms of training? 

Agree x plane is miles ahead of p3d. 

Edited by Craig Tomkins

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Connor Faulder

P7 progress? Never!

1 hour ago, Craig Tomkins said:

What would I need to do in terms of training? 

An S1, then an S2, then an S3. I'd get started now if I were you

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Craig Tomkins
1 hour ago, Connor Faulder said:

P7 progress? Never!

An S1, then an S2, then an S3. I'd get started now if I were you

Looks like I might have to 😂😂😂

 

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Johan Grauers

I don't know about Morecambe bay but the north sea routes are controlled from Aberdeen, who essentially have a mini-center as a result of the off-shore operation. 

I don't know that much about how they operate but from what I understand it's not that like "normal" FIS, as their traffic isn't really that much like what you tend to get over the mainland. 

From a vatsim perspective I don't know if it's worth it for vatsim. The issues we would have is lack of insight, but also lack of similarity. The real world guys are commercial operators who operate these routes all day, and this has lead to some prety unique procedures at aberdeen. Aerodrome side for example they have (in certain circumstances) options such as landing helicopters on (intersecting) cross runways while still using the main, or landing several helicopters at once on the main dividing it up into sections. These are things that normally would not be allowed as you are clearing several aircraft to use the same runway space. 

I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if there are similar things in the off-shore operations with local procedures and exceptions because of the type of traffic they work with. 

 

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Alex Hodgkinson

I don't think many rigs have a FISO or a HLS Officer, let alone someone with a full CAA ATC license. Plus any service would be purely procedural and actually more akin to an Air/Ground service.

Get used to saying "roger" a lot.

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